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Please allow me to introduce one of the world's best rock bands - nope, not Kansas City's Molly McGuire, but close! Gunfighter's the name, and actually it's half of the mighty McGuires: guitarists and vocalists both, Jason Blackmore and Toby Lawrence, now together with new drummer David Smyth and bassist James Armbrust. The band just released the sprawling full-length, Pro-Electric, on High Noon Records and has another new one, High Noon (the record, not the label!), coming out this month on Idol Records. But Shiner drummer Jason Gerken played drums on both albums, taken from the same recording sessions (like Metallica's Load and Re-Load, but these don't suck), and Gerken was the drummer for Molly McGuire, so that was 3/4 of the old Molly together again, but then Gerken left. Did I mention that Blackmore has written 100 Gunfighter songs? Oh, and he left Kansas City for San Diego? Confused yet? Luckily , the ever-charming Mr. Blackmore lent me his ear for some pertinent questions, and we untangled the web before his phone battery died: Kansas has spawned some of the best early '90s rock albums around: Paw's Draglin, Molly McGuire's Lime, Shiner's Lula Divinia. What is it about that area of the country?     Season To Risk, too! I was a very big fan of Giants Chair. Actually, Scott, the lead singer, has a honky-tonk band called Rex Hobart And The Misery Boys. It's pretty cool; I think they've just put out their second record for Bloodshot Records, but I'm not quite sure. There's some pretty cool artists out of the KC scene, but that rock scene that was happening back then is kind of gone. It's something that came and went; Shiner's still kicking on, and Season To Risk. There's new bands that I'm not really aware of, but the real healthy days of that melodic rock that we helped create...that sound isn't really popular anymore, but maybe I'm just too old! But we didn't know what we were doing at the time; some friends of ours had a band called Germbox, and I played bass in the first incarnation. The funny story there is that they got Seth Harty to play bass with them, once I left. I quit because I wanted to play guitar, so the drummer, Matt, and guitarist, Sean, got Seth to come in from like Lincoln or Omaha. He played with them for awhile, got tired, then he and I started Molly McGuire; he moved from bass to guitar, and I had bought a guitar rig. We decided that we both wanted to play guitar, and neither of us had ever played guitar or sung in a band! Other than that, there was Season To Risk and Sin City Disciples, from which Ernie went on to be Tenderloin. But there wasn't much going on, and quite frankly, we were the first two-guitar, big-chord melodic band around town because Season To Risk was way more gritty and grindy. We were the first ones in town introducing the idea of heavy melody. I'm not saying that we were responsible for Boys Life or Giants Chair; they obviously did their own thing, but we were the first ones on the block to say, "Hey, this is cool," but the whole time we were doing it, we were stumbling because I didn't really know how to play guitar! What ever happened to Molly McGuire in the end?     Basically, Epic Records happened to Molly McGuire! (laughing) There was a good and bad about the whole thing. When people ask me now, "Where have you been? What've you been doing the past couple of years?" I say "I've been working my a** off to play music! I've written almost 100 songs, but you haven't heard anything from me because Epic...well, whether we liked it or not, it was almost like having a black mark put above your head - whether we were responsible for anything or not." Because things were starting to move along for us, and we always did everything the way we wanted, as far as songwriting and touring. We felt that we were a live band and we liked to tour; and we were just minding our own business, and we though that, by signing with Epic, it was gonna be great distribution and they were really gonna push us. But really what we were doing was basically just digging a hole, because they put the record out and three months later, they wanted to hear demos for another album, and we were like "Whoa, you guys just put that record out! What're you talking about?!?" (laughing) It was kind of a nightmare, really; it was a big learning experience. Right when we thought things were beginning for us, it was really ending. We had no control over it. We just had gotten a manager, and now she didn't want anything to do with us; shortly thereafter, the label let us go. I felt somebody just pulled the rug out from under us. I even asked people that I knew in the business, "What'd we do wrong?!?" (laughing) That's such a shame, because Lime is one of the greatest rock albums of all time, even though it didn't at the time sound like a major-label record.     And there was more where that came from! We were ready to do another album; when they asked domos after three months, I was (1) kinda floored but (2) okay, because we've gotta do what we've gotta do. I had been working on a lot of material, and we had more songs than needed. They were talking about a producer, and at that point it became obvious to me; this is the major-label game, they want a producer's name on the record, etc. So we started talking to Ted Nicely, who worked with Girls Against Boys, Shudder To Think, and such. They got really excited because the label president, at that time, his favorite band on the Epic roster was Shudder To Think! I was like, "Wait, that's the freakiest band you guys have on your label, and you're giving us sh*t?!? Okay, that's cool." But I guess the president, who didn't like us from the beginning - keep that in mind, too! - I don't think he ever really wanted us to be on the label. Our buddy, Damon Stewart, was the one who signed us, and he was a longtime and is still a very good friend of mine and the band's, and that's why we went with him. Here's a really good friend of ours, and he's gonna watch our back. Well, a year into it and they fired him, and a year later, we were gone. But we told them we were interested, and I sent Ted Nicely demos, who really liked the stuff. I sent him 20 four-track songs; we went on the Lollapalooza tour; he went to record an album overseas. We get done with the tour; he's done with the album, but we can't get a hold of him. We were trying and trying to get a hold of his manager; finally we found out that he'd fired his manager but hadn't tried to contact us. It was like a total communication breakdown. Then finally I did talk to Ted, and he said, "I don't want to do demos with you guys, but I would love to do the album with us. Doing demos, that's the label questioning my abilities." Which I agreed with, but we're not Pearl Jam, and they're not gonna just give us $200,000 and tell us to go have fun! I said to him, "Dude, come on - we just have to record two more songs, then the label will give us the money to record the album," which we were looking very forward to recording with him. But he said, "Nope, won't do it," and - maybe it was screwed up on your part - we didn't have a backup plan as far as a producer. To those label guys, obviously a producer was a major deal. It really became like business, but everything works out in the end. At first though, it didn't seem that way; it was a very big bummer when we all realized that somebody else was in control of what was going on. Whatever we tried to do, it just seemed like it wasn't working. Slowly but surely, it fell apart and I found new life in just giving up the name. But on that day I decided we should go on with a new name, I felt...amazing, actually! Molly McGuire's my baby! (laughing) It was sad to lay it to rest, but the next day, it's like waking up and everything's wide open and the possibilities are endless. But I think Gunfighter still retains a lot of elements from Molly McGuire, it's just more rock-structured and poppier in a more straightforward way.     Yeah, it's definitely more structured. People have said it's got the obvious Blackmore songwriting chords but it's way more to the point. But one of the things I'm starting to miss in songwriting is the lengthy, prog-rockish ideas that Molly McGuire brought forth. In the near future, I'm probably going to return to some of that stuff because I've written enough A-B-A-B-C-A-B songs, so that's why I'm starting to look at that. I'm not saying that they don't have feeling, but the point of it is crank-it-up, rock-out kind of sh*t. Both bands are all about that, but Gunfighter is more to the point. Still, it must've been a boon recording with 3/4 of Molly, at least, for Pro-Electric.     Totally! Of course, Jason Gerken is probably my all-time favorite drummer, other than Ian Paice from Deep Purple. I feel very fortunate to have played with a lot of drummers; Tim Dow (formerly of Shiner) played with us - he played CMJ for the Loosegroove Showcase when we played with Queens Of The Stone Age. Loosegroove (former label of Pearl Jam/Brad's Sonte Gossard and Pigeonhed/Brad's Regan Hagar), who put out the first QOTSA album, was actually supposed to release Pro-Electric. But Jason told me that on tour (with Shiner) at least one if not a few people would ask him about Molly/Gunfighter every night, so he's helped spread the word. I think he's a fan of Gunfighter and obviously being a part of it, he's like a member of the band but he's not - but he is! (laughing) But you know I'm living in San Diego now, and it was getting to the point that I just needed a break from the KC scene. I'm very fortunate to have worked with those guys, and they're still wanting to do this and that - Toby (Lawrence), Jim (Armbrust), and David Smyth from Season to Risk filling in on drums and being our drummer. They're all awesome people. What ever happened to Ray Jankowski, bassist for Molly McGuire?     Good ol' Ray? He got tired of the rock likfe. He got married and has a beautiful little girl named Julia, who's about three years old now, I think. Right before I moved out here in November of last year, we had a Sisters Of...-lineup, Molly McGuire reunion. We played a free show at a record store called Recycled Sounds in the afternoon and then at a bar called the Hurricane at night, and we just had a blast. It was Scott (McMillian) on guitar, Ray on bass, Gerken on drums, and me trying to sing and play guitar! (laughing) It was a fun time. I said I'd never do it again, but I've talked to those guys since I've moved, and they're like, "Hey, let's play some more!" So you never know. I was trying to hint around to do an album - I think everybody would like to do it - but we'll just have to see what happens with time. Scott's got two kids, and Ray's got a girl. Things happen, and you start learning about life in different ways. It just gets crazy. I first heard Gunfighter until the Inhale comp on Spitfire Records came out. What's the story behind that, since I don't think anyone would accuse you of playing stoner rock?     This guy, Gill (Nebula's manager), that works over there is really cool, but I've got to give credit to my friend Bambino, who's been a tremendous help for the Gunfighter cause. He woks for McGathy Promotions, a radio promotions firm out of New York. Once he heard that Loosegroove was going down, Bambino hooked me up with 30 or more labels, including Gill, who was putting together this compilation. He asked us and we said yes because it's a way to get some stuff out there; we've got so much stuff recorded form that session. I wouldn't consider us a stoner rock band, either, though! But stoner is almost done, you know? I mean, Ray and I always listend to Kyuss, but that was way before anybody brought up the term 'stoner.' Mayber we're just in a different age braket, but here's Ray and I going, "Man, this is kicka** - it's Sabbath, of course!" So I was kinda baffled when somebody put that term on this genre of music because I actually listened to Deep Purple! Too many trends lately and people get confused, like what's the flavor of the week - it's like "What's Really In" off of Pro-Electric. That's what it's all about: my experiences in the music business, and the things people will do to be 'rock stars.' Pro-Electric is one heck of an album on all levels - it's poppy and catchy, it's sexy, it's aggressive, it's serene.     It felt good to me. Sequencing those songs is an important thing; you've got to set the mood for somebody. That's what I - and we - are trying to do: put out cool records. That was the idea behind the headphones (on the cover of Pro-Electric: listen to an album. Use your imagination. Don't sit and watch a TV and let it tell you, "This is how you're supposed to look if you're gonna listen to this music." People used to listen to headphones and create their own videos in their heads. What is an album? It's music, and that's what's important here, not what kind of shoes I'm wearing! See, I know that I like somebody or that they've paid attention when they say, "This album is kicka**," not when they go (talking in his best stoner accent), "Hey man, that song, 'My F**kin' Head Is Gone,' that's pretty cool." Which, I mean, is great, but it's like, "Oh, you got the album, like from start to finish, ya get it? It all kinda flows!" Hopefully, High Noon, the second record, is like that but shorter. It's from the same recording sessions; some of the tracks were recorded at Trainwreck, which was Season To Risk's old studio, then the majority was recorded at Red House with Ed Rose. We did 18 songs in five days there! We had like 30 songs from both sessions, so instead of just letting the stuff sit and collect dust, I wanted to get out two albums' worthof material. I think Pro-Electric is my favorite, but High Noon is right up there: it's pretty cool, it's a bit shorter of an album, but in its own right, it's an interesting album. It's coming out on Idol Records, a label based in Dallas. When we mastered Pro-Electric, I flew into Seattle, laid out the artowrk, mastered the record, and was able to be there. Erv, the guy who runs Idol, is cool and believes in this guy Toby who mastered it, so I think everything will be all right. I know you love variety and putting different textures of sound into your songs, like the vibes and sax of "Snow In June" and the unobtrusive violin in "Dreamsickle," even the cool bells in "The Ceiling" and of course your somber piano at the end of "The Floor." What inspires you to do things like that in a particular song?     That stuff's really close to me and personal. I sit around and brainstorm about what you could do to a song so it's not just bass, guitar, vocals, drums - which sometimes is just perfect. But in creating an album, I'm like, "Let's try this here, let's try that." It's like the flute in "Royal Pine Box" (from Molly McGuire's Lime): I said, "I wanna get somebody to play flute on this intro," and the rest of the band said, "What're you talking about?!?" But in my head, I knew exactly what I wanted, to give you this atmospheric or just take you somewhere else for a second. but it wasn't like I sat down with a pen and paper and wrote out exactly what I wanted those musicians to play. I talked to them about what I was looking for, and tehy did it. I can't write music, but I do arrange all our songs and make up all our music. Christine (Brebes) is an amazing violin player; I gave her a copy of the song and told her to come in at this point, drop out at that point, and she did it - it was that simple. The same for Mark (Southerland, sax) and Mike Dillon on vibes; they all gave their time for free. I was looking to bring in something extra to take the songs somewhere else; I gave those a general idea of what I was looking for, and they did the rest on their own. I'm assuming that "The Ceiling" and "The Floor" are companion pieces, like Zeppelin's "Heartbreaker" and "Living Loving Maid," right?     Right! You can't break up those songs! Or I'll come to your house and kick your teeth in! Listen to "Humansville," "Royal Pine Box," or those lengthy prog-rocky songs, then combine "The Ceiling" and "The Floor." You have to listen to them together, but the way I would've written 3-4 years ago, it would've been one song. But it's two songs now, but it's not! I don't know, but I think my pop phase is coming ang going; I wouldn't be surprised if here in a few months, I'd start writing some more Lime-ish type stuff. I want to write some heavier, drawn-out songs again. Gerken and I keep talking that we need to do a Melvins band. so we'll see what happens! Ken Andrews of Lime fame also produced the Replicants, On, and Failure - any comments on working with him in comparison to Joel Hamilton or others?     Ken's an awesome guy and he's got really rad ideas. I was a Failure fan, and Ken Waagner (who ran HitIt!, our first label) managed Failure for a year of so around '94-'95. We played at the Dragonfly in L.A., and Ken (Andrews) came up to us after the show and said, "You guys are one of the few bands I'd really like to record sometime. If you'd every be interested, here's my number." We had a good time recording with him; he got some great sounds down. We got to be the band that we were, and he just turned it up a notch. He really didn't know what to think about "Catfish" and "Royal Pine Box," songs that I wouldn't let him touch or put any ideas into. But vocally, he helped me tremendously. He did help us structure "Coin Toss," which was the only song that wasn't written, really. Are there any other Gunfighter recordings aside from Pro-Electric, the forthcoming High Noon, and the Inhale comp track?     There's still a few songs that haven't been touched from the Red House sessions. I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to do anything with them; there's one called "Bleach And Syringe," a 8-to-9 minute, real mellow song that I'd like to finish sometime. I've been thinking about maybe booking some time to go in and do the bass and guitars on it. Is the new High Noon album going to have normal distribution, i.e. I can find it and buy it at my local record store? How about Pro-Electric?     Yes, you should be able to. Actually, the guy from Idol Records picked up a couple hundred copies of Pro-Electric for me. We did a distribution deal, so he's trying to get those out there in stores for me. We called it High Noon Records; ever since I was a kid, I wanted to start a label. So, in a roundabout way, I'm kinda starting one but still managing this band and writing all the music for it, so I don't have time for everything. That label out here, Cargo - we talked to them a little, and they seemed kinda interested in the band. I can't really say one way or another, but I've always dug Cargo for bands like Drive Like Jehu, so we'll see what happens. I hope to at least record another album if not six or seven, because I've got all the stuff waiting. Now if I can just get my band out here and playing instead of talking about it! They're all planning to make the move out here, more or less, but if not, then I've got other people to take their spots. Are there any other KC-type bands like Gunfighter, Shiner, Season To Risk, and coalesce that we should be aware of?     Did you ever check out Chavez? I don't even know if they're around still, but they put out two records on Matador, and I know Shiner was pretty heavily influenced by them. Part of my reason for coming to San Diego was for bands like Drive Like Jehu; they did The Hopsnakes, which just came out last year. Tanner from here was one of my favorite bands, and Boilermaker was really cool (both Goldenrod Records bands); we don't fit in that genre, but I'm still a fan of that kind of music. Traindodge from Oklahoma is one of my favorites; I don't really like that kind of music anymore, but when a good band like that comes along, there's no denying that they rock. Queens Of The Stone Age is another. But I also listen to ZZ Top and stuff - I just made Gerken a comp tape with mainly live stuff by The Who, Deep Purple, Yes, Ted Nugent, Cream...classic rock.